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Episode 2

This Serial Acquisition Entrepreneur Got His Start at 27

Please see below for the episode audio and full transcript.

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Podcast Introduction

John Morris got his start as an acquisition entrepreneur when he was 27-years-old. He has since bought and sold multiple businesses and is continually out there talking to people so he can find his next business purchase. John delivers gold nuggets about how he was able to find businesses for sale, and it's easier than you might think. You can connect with John on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-morris-83932b15b/

Episode Transcript

Philip Arthurs 

Hello business miners! I'm your host, Philip Arthurs, the evangelist for the better way to becoming an entrepreneur. We are geared up for an awesome show today. Our guest comes to us from Birmingham, Alabama. He purchased multiple businesses and is here to deliver us some golden nuggets. It is my pleasure to introduce to you John Morris.  John, how the heck are you, buddy?

 

John Morris 

Well, doing awesome man. Any day we get to talk about business is a great day.

 

Philip Arthurs 

Boom!  That's what I'm talking about!  I love talking about businesses. Today, we're going to dig deep into the processes of how you buy businesses.  We'll probably keep it at a high level.  We're going to talk about some actionable steps and things that and tips and things that we can do as our as acquisition entrepreneurs, and as we're on that journey towards entrepreneurship. So, John, I'm glad that you're here. And so let's, uh, let's dive on in. Awesome. Out of all the business well, acquisition entrepreneurs that I have met, everybody has an awesome story, right? Everybody has a different story. Everybody has a certain tip or trick or strategy or the way they use real estate, for instance, somebody they've always got some kind of really cool thing about him that that is really interesting to me. So you know, I have talked to you, and you have some interesting things to say about some of the visits you bought. So yeah, so we're going to dig in to your processes. And we want to, we want some actionable steps. So our listeners can take those go out today and start making it happen. Okay, on their journey to acquisition entrepreneurship.

 

Philip Arthurs 

So, John, tell us about either your first or maybe your favorite or first acquisition.  Tell us about how you found it? What cool strategies did you use and what were the results of that? How did you fund the deal? Was there any seller financing in the deal?

 

John Morris 

Yeah. So I think I'll take you back to the beginning.  I was 27 at the time and had a goal that I wanted to own a business before I was 30. So that was the goal. I did not know what that meant. I didn’t know how I was going to do it. I didn't know what business that was going to be. But that was going to be the goal. And so I started plowing into information found, you know, this was around 2002 to 2004, so there wasn't a whole lot of podcasts to listen to, there wasn't a whole lot of courses to take.  It was more like, hey, buy this book, or buy this thing and just study. And so I did and learned and the funny thing about the first one was I got to the point to where I was going through several opportunities that I was looking at, and starting out, I thought, “Oh, this is the one”, and then you dig in and dive a little deeper, and you see something you don't like, or something that that doesn't fit.  I got a little discouraged at times wondering, is it ever going to happen? So the example here is I was at an attorney's office talking to him about this business that I was for sure we were going to make happen, this was going to be the one and this was an acquisition, right. So at the end of the meeting, he said he don’t see the potential in that one. But hey, he opened up his drawer and pulled a piece of paper out and said you might be interested in this one. And it was a gym floor refinishing company.  I didn't even know gym floors were refinished every year and I played basketball in high school. So we set a meeting with the owner we met the next day and turns out he was an elder in my church, didn't even know him. He had started this business 20 years prior and was ready to retire.  It had a lot of good bones about it. And we made the deal happen in January of 2008.  I actually just sold it this year at the end of June 2020.  I took the business from what I would call the young stage and grew it.  I lived a great life through it and made a lot of good friends.  I was also able to acquire a couple of other businesses during the process, during this same time I owned that one.   It provided a product that provided income for us to live. And also, for me to understand, like, hey, I want to take that model, and continue to do what we did. And so that's where we are now.

 

Philip Arthurs 

Hey, man, that sounds like a gift from above right there.

 

John Morris 

Yeah, exactly.

 

Philip Arthurs 

So the gym floor business, what kind of multiple do people normally see for a business like that?

 

John Morris 

So that's interesting, you say that, because at the time, I was just wet behind the ears. I didn't even understand that part of it. I just knew that this was an existing business that had renewal customers every year. So as long as I didn't run them off, or make them mad, they were going to come back, and we're going to do the same service every year. To dive into that a little bit, it is a service business, right? Or it was, and there are some contracts involved, but not a lot. And so that was the model that I inherited, and had come to find out that's the model that continued. What I would have liked to have had was more contractual customers and know that that's every year for five years, and then you could really sell that for more multiple, but the realization in that world is that it just doesn't happen.

 

 

Philip Arthurs

Well, I love it. There's a couple takeaways here. You know, one of my favorite sayings is, “Progress, not perfection”, you just go out there and do it or, fire, ready, aim; another one of my favorites is “Perfection kills all deals”. You were a young guy, you knew you wanted to be a business owner, and you went out there, and you found something that was cash flowing. That's the other nugget that John just dropped here, and it's the beauty of why I believe acquisition entrepreneurship is the best way to become an entrepreneur. Because when you're a startup, you have to go find your customers, right? You have to build the business, go set up your licenses and your taxes. There's a lot of things to set up with a startup. But if you buy a business that's already cash flowing, you've got something that you can springboard off of, you go in as your CEO, go in there clean it up, make it better, put better processes in it and start selling. All the while, you've already got money coming in your pocket, if you buy it the right way, you have an instant salary.

 

John Morris

That's exactly right.

 

Philip Arthurs 

Something else too, I probably should dive into.  Some of our listeners who may not know what a multiple is, can you explain what a multiple is, in your words?

 

John Morris 

Yeah. So for instance, on some deals I'm looking at now, most of the time, its industry specific, right? You know, you could go to an accountant and take a dental practice, and that the guy's ready to retire and sell and typically, those are going to sell, you know, for a pretty common three times multiple. So what does that mean? It can mean several things, but most people would take the EBITDA, which is the earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization, then take that number, multiply that by three, and that's your enterprise value. So when we say a multiple, that is what we're talking about.

 

Philip Arthurs

Right. It's whatever the industry standard is, let's say, it's two and a half times, we're talking about two and a half times cash flow. And we're saying cash flow is, as people sometimes call it, your EBITDA.  Like John just said, your earnings before your interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization. Now, not all businesses have the interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization. So at that point, it's just your net income. And then most small businesses operate off of what's called SDE, seller’s discretionary earnings and it could also be a multiple of that number, which is essentially just your adjusted EBITDA. You have an EBITDA, and let's say you pay yourself a salary of 100 grand, you take your EBITDA, and then you add back your salary, right?

 

John Morris 

On smaller deals, what you typically find is that the owner lives out of the business too, right? You know, if he takes his family out to dinner, right or wrong, he's going to put that on the business. He might, you know, fund his vacation out of the business. So when you're analyzing a deal, you got to know what that owner has been doing in the business that would not transfer to the new owner.

 

Philip Arthurs

Exactly.

 

John Morris

Which, hey, I do it too. Right.

 

Philip Arthurs

Absolutely, everybody does. Pretty much all small businesses.

 

John Morris 

Yeah, you got to document it and make sure that is separate from the transaction.

 

Philip Arthurs 

That's right. Well, our show is geared towards people who want to buy. However, if there's anyone listening that wants to sell, you need to understand this.   I've run into this, I'm sure John has run into this, as has a lot of acquisition entrepreneurs that I know, have run into situations where a target's financials are inaccurate, because they’re like “My revenue is showing that I made a million, but it was really like $1,000,000 to $2,000,000. Because we spent this money on our vacation and didn't report the earnings or, our net income is actually really higher, because we took a vacation and call it a business trip”, but they had no records or receipts or anything like that. So, my advice to people who are selling businesses is, make sure you have an accountant and a bookkeeper and you're documenting things the right way. Because if you have any plans of selling your business, and someone like John or myself walk in the door to buy your business, we're going to be looking at your financial statements. And if it doesn't make sense, you could end up taking a hit on how much money you're going to be able to get. You may be telling us its complete, but your tax returns and your financial statements and your records are just not lining up, it's going to hurt you in the long run.

 

 

John Morris 

There's a deal right now that's local in Birmingham.  It’s a 25-year-old service company run by a master plumber.  He knows that world in a super successful business. But you know, now he's ready to sell it but there's no formal bookkeeping record. So now he is going to spend the next year trying to clean up the books. It's a great business, it does extremely well. But he can't sell it. It's unsellable right now, because he can't prove what he's trying to sell. And so that's a great example of on the buy side and on the sell side, is get your numbers, right. Every time.

 

Philip Arthurs 

Absolutely. And, you know, there's plenty of really good advisors out there. And I'm going to have some on the show very soon, that are going to go over that. But you know, making sure that your records and your processes are solid for at least three years is probably a good minimum.

 

John Morris

That’s probably the average. Yeah.

 

Philip Arthurs 

Yeah, because you know, if your inventory records are all messed up, then your financials aren't accurate, and you're not reporting earnings. It could get pretty messy, quick.

 

John Morris

Yeah, absolutely.

 

Philip Arthurs 

The one that I actually just looked at probably about a month ago, was also a plumbing company, funny that you mentioned that. But the guy was like, well I actually make like $400,000 more than what is on my tax return.

 

John Morris

That’s great.

 

Philip Arthurs

I want to believe him and the number of trucks he had, the number of plumbers that were working for him, all that lined up and it made sense that that is how much he earned. But, you know, because people will mislead you that is something I've learned. So Business Miners pay attention. There's a lot of good people out there. But there are also a few who are shady and will try to deceive you, always try to be a truth teller, and a truth seeker and it will always work out for you.

 

John Morris

Yeah, and it can be totally on the up and up like, not trying to deceive you. But as a buyer, you've got to know. I know exactly what we're talking about. Yep, might be the same company.

 

Philip Arthurs

I like ones that are like steady Eddy, the non-glamorous, you know, that are going to cash flow and not have any kind of crazy market disruption.

 

John Morris

Yeah, absolutely.

 

Philip Arthurs

Reminds me of Mike Rowe, the Dirty Jobs Show guy.

 

John Morris

He's one of my favorites.

 

Philip Arthurs 

I mean, he finds the companies and those guys that are on those shows, that he's representing probably make a ton of money because nobody wants to do it. Like a friend of mine bought into a porta potty business and he said it was a great moneymaker. But you know, you think porta potties like gross but...

John Morris

It’s not sexy, is it?

 

Philip Arthurs

It’s not, but it will cash flow and that is…

 

John Morris

Exactly, right.

 

Philip Arthurs

Good. So you bought this gym floor business and you've since sold it right? How long have you?

 

John Morris

Yeah, I just recently and like, first of July or late June.

 

Philip Arthurs

Awesome! Was it a good deal?

 

John Morris

Yeah. It was a fair deal for everybody, which, you know, was a point I was going to make, you're talking about multiples, EBITDA and all these technical terms. I try to think of a business deal, just like I would a real estate deal. Or if I'm selling a bike on Facebook, it's always that you can try to get up whatever multiple you want. But until you have a buyer and a seller, that both agree on what that business is worth, you got nothing. And so that was important in all the deals that I've done, especially the sale of the gym for business was, I could name a price, and what I wanted to get, but until all the pieces of the deal were put together that made sense for both of us, we had nothing. So I think that's important.

 

Philip Arthurs

You make your money when you buy, right?

 

John Morris

Absolutely.

 

Philip Arthurs

It's just like real estate. I'm a big real estate guy; I love real estate, and have my own real estate investment business. You make the money when you buy. And along those lines, when you're sitting down with a potential seller who wants to sell, I think some people they go in there and they try to play hardball off the bat. But I think a big thing that people need to understand is, it's about relationships. You know, going in building a relationship, getting confidence from that seller, that you're going to be able to take their baby that they've grown and raised, and keep it alive. Do you have anything you want to add on to that, when you are going through buying the business, like the seller interaction?

 

John Morris 

Number one is, price is secondary to several other factors. What I mean is, price is important. But initially, when you're having a meeting with a seller, I don't even try to think of any of the deals we've done that I've even asked what the price was. I mean, you kind of know going into it, but there's so many things that you need to know before what the sell price of that business is, seasonality, customer base and, all the things that need to be known before the price is even relevant. I guess number one is, don't focus on price too much early on.

 

Philip Arthurs

I agree. That right there John, is a gold nugget, because so many people get hung up on the price. I'm not a huge fan of buying businesses through a broker, I will, I'm not against it. But I know one of the first companies that I looked at was through a broker. And I started looking at the prices, I was like, "well, you know what, I'm going to go look. I don't like the price based on the numbers they're providing, but I'm still going to look at it anyway". And the seller ended up agreeing to about $400,000 or $500,000, less than the asking price. Because I got in there started digging, asking good questions. I mean, the quality of your success is determined by the quality of your questions. In this business, you have got to ask quality questions, and listening to this show you're going to hear some good quality questions, we're going to bring those kinds of questions up from time to time. Customer base, seasonality, and those right there that John just mentioned, those are really good questions. Like, what kind of customer base do you have? Oh, you mean, you don't do any revenue between October and December? Well, if you're going to go bank financing in any form or fashion, and you're not prepared after you bought the business for a huge dip in revenue between October, November and December, the outstanding debt payments are still going to be due, right? It's not going to say [to the banks], "hey, we don't have any revenue". Well, you should have asked those kind of questions and should have looked at it. I'm a numbers guy and I'm a CPA by trade. So I look at the numbers. I like to look at the financial statements; I'll take three years’ worth of monthly financials and I'll put them across an Excel spreadsheet by month, and have the monthly P&L lined up in columns. And then I'll look at the trends, in your revenue and in your cost. And, you know, you say, "hey there's a huge dip every October, November and December". Explain that and dig into that.

John Morris

Funny you say that.  I'm so far from that guy. I mean, I'm a field guy. It's a feeling. I could never sit there and do what you just said. Now numbers are important, obviously. But you know, there are other people that would have looked at a deal like you or an accountant or somebody that says, yeah, the numbers look good. Me? I want to go find the deal, have trust with the seller, develop the relationship, and feel good about the potential for the business. Then the numbers will follow. So both important, right? Both of those traits need to happen at some point in the deal. But you're different, and I'm different. So, what are your strengths and what are your weaknesses?  I'm not a numbers guy, I could spend a month looking at spreadsheets. But the point is, don't think that you have to be all of those people. Have people on your team that you can like, go show the numbers to and say, give me a thumbs up.

 

Philip Arthurs

Boom, that's a gold nugget right there. So everybody that's listening, it's important that, not everybody can be good at everything. You need a solid team. John just said, he's not a normal numbers guy, okay, but he also said numbers are important. Get somebody and get an expert. Build a team. Without a doubt, you need a CPA and an attorney. The attorneys are going to probably come in a little bit towards the end. I have different opinions about attorneys when they should enter into a deal. I sometimes think if they enter into early it could kill a deal. It’s just that the relationship goes cold and I've seen that happen before. The seller will bring his attorney in and it just turns cold. Having a good CPA is important. I'm a CPA, but I don't practice anymore, I mean, other than, helping people buy businesses. But you know, having a good CPA, while they might seem expensive, they could also save you thousands of dollars. One of the businesses I was in, I helped this company buy a bunch of other businesses. We brought in a solid, and I'm going to have him on the show soon, but a really solid corporate tax guy who does a lot of M&A work. And I can't remember what he charged exactly. But what he saved us was probably like four or five times what his bill was. But his bill, if I just told the average Joe how much his bill was, he would probably be in shock.

 

John Morris

Yeah, so expensive is a relative term to the deal, right?

 

Philip Arthurs

Literally, cost you more to not get them involved, so get your accountant involved early. And while we're on the subject of a team, and John, maybe you can speak some more to this. But I think the number one person on your team is your significant other or your spouse.

 

John Morris

No doubt.

 

Philip Arthurs

Have them on board with you. If you want to buy business, your spouse, and you need to be in alignment, you need their support. Because if it's tense at the beginning, I would not move forward. I would make sure that you and your spouse, or significant other, or your best friend or whoever it is, make sure you are on the same page before moving forward and save you a lot of trouble. Then I would say your CPA is probably next. And maybe I'm a little biased by that. But I don't know, what do you think, John?

 

John Morris

Yeah, so there's been several times when at our stage in life, we've got an eight-year-old, a four-year-old and so she's all in on the kids, you know, it's easy to think, alright, I'm just going to do what we need to do over here business wise, and then I can come deal with you with the kids, we can do this. But the times that I have run questions by her or scenarios, or deals or whatever, and she always blows me away with her advice. And so it is a yes. 100% you're right.

 

Philip Arthurs

I am pretty Type A, hard charging, always got a million irons in the fire, and my wife is very calm, reserved, organized, you know. So, I have to rely on her pretty heavily. I'll run stuff by her, I say, hey, let me let me run something by you same way you do. You can get a lot of wisdom from your spouse. And a lot of times your spouse, your significant other or whatever, whoever you decide if you're not married, or you don't have a significant other but maybe a best friend, those people tend to know you a lot. Maybe sometimes a little more than you know yourself. It's always good to get somebody you know who you can count on to run things by, like a friend or spouse or a loved one, could be your mom or dad even. But on the same note, I would also be very careful about who you take advice from. So my personal philosophy is, I'm not going to take advice from somebody who isn't where I want to be. Now, I will take advice from my wife, and that gives me another perspective, right? Just because that friend or somebody says, oh, Philip, I don't think you should do that; you know, for whatever reason, that's scary. There's risk. You know? There's a lot of people out there that will talk you out of your dreams. What I would say to people that want to buy businesses is be careful who you tell about this. Because some people will try to squash your dreams, for whatever reason. Don't let people squash your dreams.

 

John Morris

Because it’s scary. [sarcasm]

 

Philip Arthurs

"Because there's so much risk" [sarcasm]. But my philosophy is fail forward. If you're not failing, you're not trying.

 

John Morris

That's right.

 

Philip Arthurs

Try. You fail, you figure it out. You course correct and keep moving.

 

John Morris

Pivot? Now you're saying pivot?

 

Philip Arthurs

Well, John, it's been a pleasure having you on today. You've given us a lot of gold nuggets and things to think about. So I wanted to ask, I'm coming to the part of my show that I will call the gold nugget round, where I'd like just to ask you just a couple more things before we go. First, what is your favorite book? I'm looking for something like a book on business, leadership, M&A, or anything like that.  What would you say would be your favorite book?

 

John Morris

Two. Obviously, The E Myth, and The Power of Zero.

 

Philip Arthurs

The Power of Zero? I have to check that one out. So, the E Myth is one every entrepreneur, small business owner needs to read. That should be required reading for everybody. I agree with that. So Power of Zero. Tell us a little bit about Power of Zero. What's the premise behind that book?

 

John Morris

The big picture there is using tax strategies to have a zero tax outlay using different strategies in different scenarios.  To lower your tax liability.

 

 

Philip Arthurs

Lower your tax liability? Absolutely. That's great. Well, I'll have to check that one out. I have not read that one. I am an avid reader, and I have not heard that one.

Also, what would be the best advice you could give somebody out there who is considering being an acquisition entrepreneur?  What word of advice would you give them?

 

John Morris

Ask the question.

 

Philip Arthurs

Ask the question?

 

John Morris

How are people going to know that you're interested in buying their business? I mean, as a business owner, you might not be ready to sell. But you might be. If there's something that catches your eye, and you know that seller could be interested, ask the question. And you can take that phrase in every piece of your life. So recently, I was asked to be an elder at church. I wouldn't have volunteered to do that, but somebody asked me to do it. When someone asked me to be on this board at the credit union, I wasn't going to volunteer to do it. But somebody asked me to do it. And now I'm in it and providing a service and good advice and help and all that. But the point is, is to always ask.  Don't be afraid to ask. You know anybody could go on a business sale website and find a business for sale, that's it and there's a place for that. But the really good ones, they're not going to be on there. You're going to find these deals. But like one of the businesses I bought last year, I was at Home Depot on a Tuesday morning in April, buying some fence panels, ran into a buddy of mine, we started talking about another business that I had bought. And he says, you know, you ought to talk to my neighbor, he's about to sell his business. They do dorm room furniture. I went out in the parking lot called the neighbor and that was on a Tuesday and he was scheduled to get the letter of intent from the buyers on Friday. I got him to hold off until Monday. I made him a deal that weekend. He took it and now here we are.

 

Philip Arthurs

So fantastic, man. Oh, I love it.

 

John Morris

Yeah, that wasn't on a business sale site.  It was at Home Depot on a Tuesday morning. Always, always have the conversation.

Philip Arthurs

That's what I’m talking about, man. Just so the listeners know, John and I are baseball dads, I've known John from the baseball park. I saw John through the fence one day.  We were having a game, and I was supposed to be coaching third base, but I went to say hey to John.  He asked what I was up to now, and I said, “well, I actually got a podcast now, and I'm teaching people how to buy small businesses. I'm actually in the market looking to buy a plumbing, electrical, HVAC, and roofing type businesses.” And he's like, “really?”  John had no idea so I said, “well, we need to go have lunch”. We set up a lunch real soon after that. Anyways, John's a good friend and I appreciate you, John, for being on the show today.

So, if somebody wanted to get in touch with you say they had a small business that they wanted to sell or they wanted more information on one of your other businesses, how can they reach out to you?

 

John Morris

I think probably the best place would be LinkedIn.

 

Philip Arthurs

Sure, we can add your LinkedIn profile in the show notes. We'll drop that in. Or you can just get on LinkedIn and search for John Morris. He's in Birmingham, Alabama. You know, if you're watching this on YouTube, you've got his face so you can see that's the right John Morris. Because, I'm sure there's a ton of John Morrises.

 

John Morris

There's three just in the local area here in Bluff Park. Well, but hey, we kind of hit the high notes with us. At some point during the series, I want to dive into specifics on deals, how they are funded, and what happens after the deal closes. Like, there's so many things that happen other than mining for the business. So I'd look forward to that.

 

Philip Arthurs

Sure, I'll have you back. We're putting together that group of five guys that are experts in various areas. And I know we're going to have a lot of opportunities there.  I'm going to have you on as a guest coach here in the near future to help give some wisdom to some of these guys and gals who’re going to be an acquisition entrepreneur.

 

John Morris

I love doing this, looking forward to seeing it through.

Philip Arthurs

Absolutely. And one more thing, too, when you were saying your last gold nugget there about asking, I'm a Christian and I read the Bible. And there's a scripture in there that says that you have not because you have asked not. There's great wisdom in that right there.  

[To the Audience] And if you are not a Christian, that's fine. We still love you. But that is timeless when wisdom. If you want something, talk about it, tell people about it. Hey, I'm looking for a business. You know, I'm looking for this or I'm looking for that. Just ask questions!  I love it. It's great. John, thank you so much for being on the show today.  God bless!

 

John Morris

It's been fun. Thanks. Thanks a lot.

 

Philip Arthurs

Thank you. That's all for today's episode of the business miner podcast. Head on over to our website at TheBusinessMiner.com for free resources and to learn more about the most proactive business acquisition coaching program on the planet. We help you become the entrepreneur everyone admires and respects. See you next time on the business miner podcast.

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About Philip

Philip is an investor, entrepreneur, certified public accountant and experienced advisor who thrives on helping others succeed!

He has served numerous public and private companies in roles such as a transaction advisor, turnaround/restructuring advisor, external financial statement auditor, internal auditor, internal controls consultant, CFO, and Corporate Controller.

Philip owns multiple companies and has helped many others buy and sell businesses.

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